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Merging bots/workers

#1 2019-04-15 14:56:07
Just throwing an idea out there and see if it sticks.

I often find myself building 50-200 of the same type of bot so i can build/develop faster, as i am sure many of you do as well.

All is fine and dandy, however i sometimes notice that when i have a very large number of bots working on something or heading towards something, the game tends to slow down a bit and lag because of the path mapping each bot has to do. That's a problem on a PC, i couldn't even imagine how crappy it has to be on a phone/tablet/tv.

Now here's the idea : what if we could merge the bots?

From 2 bots we merge into a brand new lvl 2 bot that inherits the properties of both.
So by this logic, if i had a lvl 100 drone and i would merge with another lvl 3 drone let's say, i would end up with one single lvl 103 drone that has the ability of 103 simple drones. Hope i'm making sense.. think of the merging of bots/workers as a lvl up system :)

Such a feature shouldn't be that hard to implement i think/ hope (only the overlord knows that) and it would definitely solve one of the most irritating issues that bast has been struggling with since the inception of the game.

Thoughts anyone?
#2 2019-04-17 19:52:55
I was just thinking of adding a idea for a new game mode to combat the to many bots building issues .
But this idea would be much simpler and for the research converter it would make a massive difference .
what we need to do is make a pole out of this idea maybe if we get enough people to vote (((((( YES !!!! ))))
he will add it .
need to got discord and add it there taht is were most people goto talk about the game .
From me taht is a Big thing as I cant stand discord lol
Edited by colbya on 2019-04-17 19:53:13
#3 2019-04-17 19:57:52
posted in error wrong place opps
Edited by colbya on 2019-04-17 20:05:58
#4 2019-04-18 05:16:16
@colyba , glad to see you're on board with the idea :)

so far it's just the two of us showing excitement about this. i'm hoping more will join

on the other hand, i'd like to see some counter-arguments as well . maybe there's a flaw in the idea i didn't think about
#5 2019-04-20 14:06:48
Sounds good anything to reduce lag gets a thumbs up for me. But wouldn't it be simpler to just optimize the game code so that if there is for example 25 of the same type a bot/worker on the same tile, when you order them to build a building, the game just sorta merges them into a single entity to move, instead of calculating the paths of the 25 bots/workers separately?
#6 2019-04-20 19:26:29
Magnus9865 said: But wouldn't it be simpler to just optimize the game code so that if there is for example 25 of the same type a bot/worker on the same tile, when you order them to build a building, the game just sorta merges them into a single entity to move, instead of calculating the paths of the 25 bots/workers separately?

Sounds easy in theory but apparently it's quite hard to achieve.
Bast has been tackling the bots issue for 2 years now with very promising advances, but never a final version. And remember this man created the game from scratch...

The bots merger/lvl up is but a suggestion and in my view it would reduce the RAM usage and the loop of code that has to move hundreds of them at a time. Plus it would be a neat feature imo.

Truth be told, none of us really know how the code works and the countless hours it takes to create such a request. All we can do is throw ideas out there and see if they stick :) .

I like to think we're helping the overlord think outside of the box
#7 2019-04-22 16:53:44
Well I for one like the idea. I think that Magnus and forgotmypass are thinking around the same concept, but stacking multiple entities into one would definately save on RAM.

It also could be that bast isn't using spacial hashing when it comes to the bots. Spacial hashing is when an object(rover/worker) basically only looks at the tiles of the map that it needs to, like the areas immediately around where it is and where it needs to go, in order to path-find to a target tile.

Regular spacial coding forces each object to check every tile in the map for obstacles to it's path before the end of every game tick while it's moving. It happens very quickly, so a few bots don't make a difference, but once you build lots of them, you see a major difference because each bot is performing millions of processes per second opposed to only thousands with spacial hashing. I don't know how to do this spacial hashing myself, but I know that the technique exists and the concept behind it.

Why do you think in games like minecraft that the game doesn't slow to a crawl when you have thousands of items on the ground from where you've mined out an entire quarry in the ground with your instant-mining tool? Those items aren't checking every block of every chunk that you have loaded on every tick. It's because all of those items only look at the tiles/blocks around them to decide whether it should fall down, stay still, or be pushed around. Granted, pathfinding is a little more complex, but it is still possible to use pathfinding in combination with spacial hashing, but it would be more difficult of a challenge.
Edited by Amorphus on 2019-04-22 16:54:16
#8 2019-04-22 23:57:50
I also like the idea. To add on to it I would love a flying upgrade for rovers that lets them move way faster and over buildings. This would allow you to fill all the extra road space with storage or power plants in the late game.
#9 2019-04-23 15:09:37
The flying idea is NIX unless bast speeds them up tremendously .
The bots path find because they are moving ON not over the tiles thus the faster TILES with pavement the bot moves faster .
the flying bots ( and there are two ) only go at one programmed speed probly 30 times slower then a AL road .
what the guy who talks about the program aspect knows mite work . BUT the merg bots idea would be simpler and cooler as a added befit is teh more you merge the faster they build .
I do know anything over 100 bots building at once the game slows .
so even a 100 Turbo construction bots building converters is SLOWWW taking about 2 mints each and wile one converter is no big deal when you are building 500 that is 1000 MINTS lol .
#10 2019-04-23 15:17:43
merging even 4 lvs would mean you could build 400 turbo bots merg them have 100 and build 4 times as fast reducing the time from 1000 mints for 500 converters down to 250 mints a HUGE difference .